Forrest Fenn’s Treasure – Finders Keepers, or Not? – Live Stream with Q&A

Shelley and Toby discuss the question of whether the finder of Fenn’s treasure will actually own it – or not.

Scholarly papers for download:

Click here to download Kleeberg’s paper on “Treasure Trove Law in the United States.”

Click here to download the Congressional Research Service’s paper on “Federal Land Ownership.”



Live Chat from Today’s Program

A Gypsy’s Kiss​Today’s program starts at 1pm MST.

Joel Lewicki​Good afternoon – welcome to the locus in quo!

Nikolai Strov​I smashed my phone on the ground yesterday.. I won’t be around as much :):

Paul McGinty​Good afternoon

Man In The Barn​Good Afternoon All

James Kruse​Hi guys

An Average Person​hey all

Peter Longan​hi

Jimmy Fast​Hi

Eric Schmidt​Good afternoon

Edward Owen​Hi Guys

Rick Plank​Hello from Cincinnati

Journeyman​Hi Guys

Nikolai Strov​HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!!

Jay Ell​top-o-the afternoon ya, boyo!

Aksarben​Hello from Omaha

clay spence​A Big Texas Happy Valentine’s back at you All!

Joey Pero​All men Shelly – I think you’ve found your audience !

Michael koen​Hello from NC

David Dow​Hello

Nikolai Strov​Joey isn’t even 21! 😉

Cindy Guess​Volume is low today

Crow Dudley​AGK.. hello from southern Indiana… You guys are awesome.

Eric Schmidt​Volume is good for me..

Cmonkeyification​Volume low on Shelley only

Aksarben​The person who has title owns it… Forrest has said that in his videos multiple times

Rick Plank​@AGK: I liked your desktop microphones much better.

Sandy Wolf​hello from West Virginia just want to say love your show

Joel Lewicki​for further research: https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/…

Dan Kirk​AGK: If you find the treasure, will it be difficult do do this show and pretend like it wasn’t you who found it?

Bill Gorman​audio was fine now sounds like Toby is in a barrel. Somebody just has a cheep computer with poor sound

RedneckExpress​Toby is loud and clear – Shelly you mic is still low

Nikolai Strov​He was of clear mind when he decided to trove his treasure

Tl Mattes​Somebody is in the office working, unable to turn it up full blast, Bill. Don’t talk bad about my sister!

Road Runners​Wado from the Osage Reservation in Oklahoma.

Nikolai Strov​YES

Steve Gaghagen​hello from snowy Kearney Nebraska

Eric Schmidt​They have new mikes this week..

Aksarben​Possession is 90% of ownership 😄

Joey Pero​Haha 37 but thank you !

Nikolai Strov​Thats my age too 😃

Denise Bagley​Title to the “gold” not the bracelet or the bronze chest.” That may be how he’ll know someone has found it.

RedneckExpress​Title to the gold is Also part of a final clue – IMO

Nikolai Strov​I believe it is someplace that is accessible to the public, you can NOT go looking for treasure in a national PARK.. These rules/laws are different in national FORRESTs

Denise Bagley​Do tell… Redneck

Nikolai Strov​Also, with all this said, this should narrow the search area/s down significantly

Bill Gorman​Forrest service cop told me I could keep it, sheriff said I could keep it, state trooper said I can keep it

Joel Lewicki​Article referenced: https://www.inc-cin.org/assets/pdf/ar…

Eric Schmidt​Bill – you preparing for your rebuttal?

Steve Gaghagen​isn’t national Park land public land set aside for us?

Nikolai Strov​Yes/no

RedneckExpress​DB: I believe Toby is accurate with the transfer of ownership verbiage, and also believe Numerous things in the poem mean 2 or even 3 different things.

Dale Richards​I had a BLM employee tell me that anything left on BLM land becomes subject to their rules of removal aft the 50 year mark.

B Cross​Greetings

Wade Kamps​This is why I rule out the treasure being placed on any reservation, then you also have to deal with another sovereign government

Cindy Guess​lol

RedneckExpress​Seriously doubt it’s on private or tribal land…

Michael koen​BLM land

Wade Kamps​Railroad bridges on reservation are all made of metal, they kept burning the wooden bridges and any freight that fell on tribal land became property of the tribe.

Nikolai Strov​Ladies, I hope your man’s spoil you with infinite sweet nothings, all the flowers in the world and more love, hugs and kisses than the eye can see.. Happy Valentimes! See you all next time ♥🙏

Eric Schmidt​Actually don’t blame the native americans for taking the tribal land so seriously as they have historical been taken advantage of

Steve Gaghagen​I agree Eric it’s one thing we didn’t take back

Road Runners​You’re so right Eric.

Eric Schmidt​I have read quite a bit about this – one of the toughest reads was Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.

Denise Bagley​That was? Or is ? I think that was a mistake , I hope.

john gould​The govt will always make the case. (Yo confiscate). What do they have to lose?

Steve Gaghagen​Little Big Man one of the best movies to show how we really treated the natives

Mary Green​@ Denise Bagley caught that too

David Ursiny​fenn is smart chances are that the box contains one gold coin and a paper ticket saying come get your treasure with his phone number

Michael koen​Fenn has said it’s not buried

Eric Schmidt​Michael – he hasn’t said whether it’s buried or not, “That’s a clue I don’t want to give”

amy smith​Hi! I’m late

fossilman123​hello from Phx

clay spence​I can’t get the live streaming up. any ideas?

Clayton Watson​Perpetually late, but finally here!!

11B 2P Treasure finder​Hi Shelley, hi Toby

Mary Green​@ clay spence clear your cookies

A J Rainville​@clay spence refresh browser?

clay spence​done and done. Thanks. will have to see it later. cell service must be bad here. tks.

B Cross
$5.00
5.00

Franklin Eavers​I would speak with an attorney to see what the best place for me to find it would be.

Eric Schmidt​AGK: United AIrlines magazine is Hemispheres

JanKirb​hey fossilman i’m in phx too

Mary Green​@ clay paste url again

fossilman123​hi jan

clay spence​@ mary will do. tks

Bill Gorman​A road is not a trail

Franklin Eavers​Can law enforcement make you say where it was found? In that case I would have a story.

Steve Gaghagen​AGK you did a video awhile ago with a great Fenn timeline can you refer me to what the title to that video is?

Bill Gorman​Forrest cop told me I can keep it

Clayton Watson​By my calculation you have approx 100 days to adjust your search area, find the chest, and implement “your plan for when you find the treasure” before I get there…plus or minus a few snow days 😉

Kira​Bill, a cop isnt a lawyer, it wont hold up.

Michael koen​It won’t be foumd before June

JanKirb​is the Shelley campaign still on?

Laurie James​a boyfriend with a treasure chest please!

Dale Richards​AGK: so, do you think that “go in peace” means to not be confrontational at all, if approached by law enforcement or a government employee?

AJ 21​Agk What if you go public with the treasure what happen then?

amy smith​I wonder if there are mosquitoes close to the treasure?

Eric Schmidt​remove the space before the first “01”

Dan VonBank​watching in Minnesota

Denise Bagley​In the interview just played Forrest says that you need to report it…was that a National Park? I just missed where he said you’d have to report it. Even though it would still belong to the finder.

Clayton Watson​@AJ21 There exists the potential to make enough money doing publicity gigs and write books that you can keep the chest!

Adam Foddy
£5.00

jaswinters​AGK So just to be clear is there any land out there legal to find the treasure chest without having any complications?

Bill Gorman​Sheriff said I can keep it, he just suggested carrying a gun for the 200 pound cats

Man In The Barn​AGK – When you auction off the chest would you be selling publishing rites to the autobiography and story or will you be keeping that?

Franklin Eavers​He doesn’t say you ‘need’ to, he says that’s the ‘legal’ thing to do. I wouldn’t tell anyone until it’s safely transported.

Adam Foddy​AGK: Has there been any cases of “treasure” being found with the finder losing out due to legal issues?

Joey Pero​Not yet

Steve Gaghagen​we say it carnie

amy smith​I think it’s because your mic is too low to why

Steve Hunt​If you aren’t the (anonymous) finder, would you say it’s not you?

Aksarben​Forrest says he has a feeling it will be found this summer. Do you feel the same or do you think it is to get people off the computer and out to the mountains

JanKirb​AGK Fenn seems so sure of no legality issues that do you think the chest contains a title document to the treasure that passes to the founder?

James Kruse​Might try moving the lapel mic higher up Tody

Peter Longan​should the finder document the location for legal reasons

Miter Broller​AGK. We all know what Clue #1 is, but interested in what Clue #9 is for you? Which line/sentence?

Bill Gorman​They don’t let me in the other Fenn Facebook groups, I know too much.

amy smith​I had one!

Dale Richards​AGK: I had a question above

Denise Bagley​Janno

Michael koen​besides the treasure the only thing I havn’t found is a car wreck in a ditch

Melinda Truscelli​How often do you go out and search? How many have you done so far?

Peter Longan​agk should the finder document the location for legal reasons

Aksarben​Michael were you in Kristin when you saw that wreck

Wade Kamps​Wonder if Forrest wanted to throw his bones on the treasure because Indian bones would trump Forrest Fenns title to his claim? sort of a poke at the govt..

Bill Gorman​I went to the Denver Museum last week, I wasn’t impressed with it.

Michael koen​I have found the rr, the cametary and fire circle

Dale Richards​AGK: some BLM areas have a 5 gallon bucket rule. Would removing a Treasure Trove be allowed with that rule in place?

Bill Gorman​Anubis and the Mammoth outside are the only clues at Denver Nature Useum.

James Kruse​That’s interesting

amy smith​AGK: do you think if there are mosquitoes where he hid the treasure?

Michael koen​yes

Melinda Truscelli​[message retracted]

Bill Gorman​As a camp host at a Forrest service campground, I know all the law enforcement for the area and they all told me I can keep it

James Kruse​Agk: would you open the chest or auction it sealed

JanKirb
$5.00
Happy Valentines …..

Melinda Truscelli​AGK how many searches have you been on and how often do you go?

Bill Gorman​It will be one of his jars with the title to go claim it

Denise Bagley​I love your show! Thank you.

Dale Richards​Amy: I think Forrest said he accidentally left his sardine sandwich in the chest when he dumped his gold in it.

B Cross​AGK: Are you aware of any interview with Forrest conducted this year with author James Frey?

Eric Schmidt​B Cross – you been watching Cowlazars?

Peter Longan​agk when or did fenn say that the chest could be affected by natural desaters.

Laurie James​FYI. Toby, you really need to read House of Rain by Craig Child’s. It’s a wonderful book.

Road Runners​AGK – Off topic somewhat but can you tell me whether or not there are lignite deposits in or adjacent to Cimarron Canyon?

Mary Green​@ B Cross, u beat me to that Q

Denise Bagley​What if you tell people where you found it? Would they have to prove it? I can’t see what I am typing so forgive my mistakes.

Edward Owen​AGK did forrest say once that the Blaze cannot be seen from Google Earth?

Allie Blanche​agk do you have to report the $100,000 in cash that’s sitting in the chest?

David Dow​AGK: could you create an entity owned by a self directed Roth IRA, therefore when you find it, you don’t really own it, but your Roth IRA OWNS IT, then no taxes need to be paid?

JanKirb​AGK can we exclude NM owned public land and city owned pubic land or not?

Denise Bagley​Like couldn’t you tell people and they’d have to prove it? Whom ever finds it could say it was found somewhere whether it wasn’t found.

Bill Gorman​James Frey said my photos were “Amazing”

amy smith​AGK: do you know if FF’s father really took his own life and the details to finding his body?

Mary Green​@ David Dow, im going to ask a account friend about that

Man In The Barn​AGK – If someone else find the trove and you find out the location afterwards would you announce report on it?

Aksarben​Could you avoid legal issue by lending or just donating it to a museum for an extended/permanent time frame

Steve Gaghagen​thanks for the answers Toby and Shelley love the show great as always Happy Valentine’s day great to be back for a live stream

Jimmy Fast​[message retracted]

Franklin Eavers​Same question as Jimmy Fast.

Michael koen​5 gallon bucket rule is for petrified wood

Denise Bagley​AGK, we should have a secret party with all invested in the hunt.

Joey Pero​@AGK thoughts on the colors mentioned in Tea with Olga?

Bill Gorman​The trove is the Drawings, find the Art in Nature if you’re brave because you will be critisized for seeing Rockwell’s in rocks.

Bill Gorman​Frey loves the Mammoth Temples fits his fantasy style.

Dale Richards​ATK: Do you think Forrest or an affiliate of his has staked a claim where he hid the treasure? If so, entirely different set of rules.

David Ursiny​none of that legal stuff will count on federal property because all you will find at the bear canyon campfire is a box with one gold coin and a ticket saying call me to get your treasure, its a legal

Steve Gaghagen​AGK what are the 6 questions you’ve decided on?

Michael koen​there has been a landslide near where I am looking

Sandy Wolf​Michael get a metal detector

David Cline
$5.00
If I ever found the treasure, I would split it with you guys for sure. Your dedication to this project is profound.

Bill Gorman​Fenn was asked if an earthquake would hide it and he acted as it could.

David Ursiny​its a legal thing for somebody getting hurt with a pile of gold forrest lawyers schooled him its hiss show

Eric Schmidt​AGK: he said you couldn’t zoom in enough to see the chest – I don’t think he said whether or not you could see the blaze

Peter Longan​thank you for that answer

Sandy Wolf​if treasure is on private land can you still claim it

Eric Schmidt​I thought that was on the Moby Dickens video..?

Dale Richards​ATK: I think he buried it in sand. He made mention of that in referring to a poem in his book. Do you think that digging in the sand does not create a surface disturbance?

Bill Gorman​AGK found in a state ROW?

Sandy Wolf​that’s why he said take it and leave it’s probably on private land

Joey Pero​ATK = only on Thursdays haha !

Sandy Wolf​how do we no that no one has found it cause of tax purposes he said he hasn’t been back to make sure it’s there

WorldFamous Gamer​is it possible to find out where Forrest’s properties?

Seannm Seannm​AGK & All: the key word may be trove, and the fact that he says “leave my trove for all to seek”. This line in the poem may cover the legalities of ownership. He spent a whole bunch of $ on lawyer

Edward Owen​Thank you eric

Dale Richards​AGK: So then, do you think I should do the right thing and put it back? 😉

Eric Schmidt​No problem! Glad to help

fossilman123​AGK, can you add this question to the list of FF Questions…..FF said he hid the treasure , Is it hidden out of view?

Michael koen​Later all, tks

Clayton Watson​AGK: Bill Gorman is referring to State Right-of-Way. I.e. bar ditches and such

James Kruse​Thanks guys, good show!

WorldFamous Gamer​God bless y’all have fun

Eric Schmidt​Thanks again Toby/Shelley

Laurie James​❤️

Tl Mattes​Good Job everyone! Thanks

Cindy Guess​Thank you, AGK!

Paul Ammons​Thanks💕

Joel Lewicki​TTYL

Paul McGinty​Thank you

Journeyman​thanks

Mary Green​thank you

Jay Ell​AGK: Other than being in his book, is the poem signed by FF to prove the poem is his for certain Forrest Fenn’s?

Forrest Fenn – Six Questions – 2018 | Live Stream + Open Q&A


Live chat

A Gypsy’s Kiss?Join us today at 1pm MST!?

Man In The Barn?Hey Toby and? Shelley!

Cmonkeyification?Howdy!?

11B 2P Treasure finder?Hi Shelley hi Toby?

Michael Elder?excited to see what? you guys have to say about this!

AJ 21?Hi?

fossilman123?Hi? ALL

Man In The Barn?Very? Normal

David Dow?Hello?

Eric Schmidt?Hello!?

Laurie James?echoing?

Rick Plank?Hello? from Cincinnati

Cmonkeyification?Audio? is good

Scott P?Driving home from Dallas in the? rain. Going to have to catch you guys on the replay. Have a good show.

fossilman123?sounds good here in PHX?

Paul McGinty?Hello?

Clayton Watson?Hello? Hello

Seannm Seannm?Afternoon all?

David Dow?Either with chat on or off, I? can’t find an option for donation by scrolling all the way down.

Treasure Poem?2013?

Crow Dudley?Hello you guys… A newbie here from southern Indiana. Could he have some kind of a GPS device or even geocaching sites close to the treasure?

Michael koen?I also sent him a card telling him where I was going and? what I had found so far

Journeyman?That’s what I? thought when I read it last night.

Steven Merillat?He is to old school for GPS but he is a guy whos made flight plans and knows exactly where he? hid the treasure.

Bill Gorman?guts? have brain cells

Sandy Wolf?ive watched two different searches were people have Found an “F” carved eitber in a tree or stone and these people referred to this as the blaze what? do you think?

Allen K?Hi AGK! Fenn usually says? he hopes the treasure is found in 100-1000-10000 years. Why does his gut now tell him THIS summer?

Clayton Watson?AGK:? His “gut” feeling is a subtle way of saying he has received a signal from a searcher without explicitly acknowledging any particular searcher who has emailed him with correct information. IMO

Michael koen?6 bucks 50 cent and the location of his? fathers grave led me to a rusty pipe 18 inches long

Treasure Poem?Clayton Watson:? I agree

Bill Gorman?an f in a tree is little compared to Fenn with a? fish and two hooks on the top of a cliff face.

David Dow?Sally Wolf, some searchers leave an “f” to mark that they’ve searched? that area.

Clayton Watson?@Treasure? Poem ????

fossilman123?huh ?? koen

Michael koen?hmm??

Michael koen?rusty? pipe in book he slide down and 18 inches is how far he stopped from ground after bail out in nam

fossilman123?why 6.50 and what rusty? pipe

Eric Schmidt?Outside? Miss Ford’s class

Maestro?hello?

Michael koen?6 bucks 50 cents and location? of his father grave=gps

Michael koen?2 borderline biddies is also a? hint

B Cross?Howdy?

Michael koen?will ne back after falcon lift? off

Jeff Treece?Agk do? you know if Forrest fenn ever took Eric Sloan for a ride in his plane?

Bill Gorman?he said after the preacher died he could retrieve it on his? own

Michael koen?that knowledge is important, just knowing a 2 track road is a dirt road but? could also be interped as a rr track

fossilman123?thx koen, 2? biddies?

Maestro?love? you’re show

Joey Pero?@AGK. Greetings from? NYC!

Stephen Johns?AGK Toby and? Shelley when you go out hunting for Forrests treasure chest how long do you devote to an area or spot on average?

Bill Gorman?canyon? down then paddle up creek

Joey Pero?The famous bill Gorman? is here!

Eric Schmidt?Infamous!?

Maestro?what lies before us and what lies behind us are small matters? to what lies within us. RWE May God bless

Dan Kirk?AGK:? Are you two still considering the geologic theory for the home of Brown?

Cindy Guess?AGK: When are you? heading back to search the Cimarron?

Cmonkeyification?AGK: You should start your? own wine club. ??

Maestro?Mr Fenn Thank you for the chase.? Tommy R Burk

Seannm Seannm?@AGK: you have? given us your interpretation of the word few, but what is your interpretation of the word first? Thank you and great job!

Joey Pero?Yay wine!?

Maestro?@AGK: Thank you? Toby and Shelley You guys are super. TRB

David Dow?I was a? grunt. 11B

Eric Schmidt?Thank you!?

Cindy Guess?Have you looked for Jessie Phillips 1894? grave site?

Tl Mattes????

phil?AGK: a few is more than two but not much more than two, (Collected works event?)?

Joey Pero?@AGK hello from? NYC!

Steven Merillat?you git my last name right YAY?

Michael koen?2 biddies is in? the book

Laurie James?blaze on a tree not? unique.

Bill Gorman?AGK Forrest said after the preacher died that he could retrieve the treasure on his own.? Also he sad he can”t imagion anbody being within 12 Feet and not finding it. it can be seen from that far

Man In The Barn?I think Bill figuring out the bottle caps is the reason FF is saying? he thinks it will be found. Bill is figuring it out.

Cindy Guess?Forrest has said he hid the treasure when “the country was in a? terrible recession” or “starting a pretty good recession”. Does that conform your 2003 hiding date? or 2010?

Paul Wood?Do u think it is? in a tree

Michael koen?behind a pine tree?

Mike Gregg?you guys are getting? close with your interpretation of the clues that’s probably why he thinks it will be found

Laurie James?AKG. What year did FF? sell his plane?

fossilman123?why do you think? 2 biddies are a clue?

Paul Wood?agk is it in a tree from? Rio rancho nm

Michael koen?2 BORDERLINE BIDDIES, I know it? is

Adam Foddy?Hey guys! Just checking in to say? hello. will watch this later tonight.

Laurie James?I’m? from Salida!

Steven Merillat?AGK PAY PAL? info again please

Michael koen?you have to look around lol?

Adam Foddy
£5.00

Cowlazars?hi? all

Eric Schmidt?Hey Mike?

Michael koen?there isn’t any way you can get to the treasure before june because of the? high alt snow

AJ 21?Agk do plan on? going to rio costilla area?

Laurie James?Snowing in? Salida!

Michael koen?it’s at 8700 feet?

Bill Gorman?The architect was the brown? beaver

Crow Dudley?What if he used a tracking device similar to what they use in ?finding a lost dog

Michael koen?battery would be dead for tracking?

Paul Ammons?AGK: One location I feel very confident with, to see the blaze I would need to break? a rule…. Thoughts?

fossilman123?why you say that koen? Thanks foe the? tips btw

Paul Wood?cowlazars it’s been? 2weeks no text from fen i am close

David Dow?AGK: what are your thought on “worth the? cold”?

Cowlazars?Paul Wood let me know how the next trip? goes..

Laurie James?oops? missed that?

fossilman123?8700? ft?

Michael koen?I only have 1 lung, my o2 machine crapped out less than 200 feet of where I wanted? to look and severly cut myself and had to retreat in heavy rain

Steven Merillat?8000ft? –

Cowlazars?Brother Bill keep up the good work!?

Laurie James?Thanks on the plane info.?

Steven Merillat?Cow – I hate the? glacier national park solve. TO COLD

Coleen DeBaldo
$20.00

Coleen DeBaldo?Agk Thanks for? the hard work, good luck Shelly

Bill Gorman?AGK? Do 3 jars of Cloves + mammoth + Clovis Points = Clovis ?

Steven Merillat
$10.00

Eric Schmidt?AGK: follow up on “worth the cold” question. You find it interesting that Forrest forgot the poem at that point in the Moby Dickens video? The rest of the poem he said? from memory.

Aksarben?your effort will be worth the bronze chest, just like he was? talking about the cold bronze bust of the Indian head. a different way of reading his words
Joey Pero?^________?

Clayton Watson?@Aksarben ???

Aksarben?Hear me all and listen good… Moby dickens he read this line twice. Watch the video and see him do that. I think this line? is really important

The Whole Monti?…. it will be? found this summer

phil?AGK: do you think there is significance to the poem mentioned,? BRAVE and in the wood, with my treasures BOLD, no place for the meek as a motif?

Steven Merillat?Spending Toby’s cash? ??

Joey Pero?@AGK No? place for the meek – no place for biddies ? Thoughts?

David Dow?I was thinking “ in the wood” might mean “on target” like in? playing darts.

The Whole Monti?would you give the treasure away if? you found it with someones solve

Bill Gorman?Moses halts the warm waters? and I found him parting the Rocky Mountains.

Michael koen?I had? 1 bear follow me out 2nd trip

Crow Dudley?AGK. Do? you think he has a tracking device in the treasure box

Joey Pero?Loose lips? sink ships!

Michael koen?lol? haad both

Aksarben?yeah i saw the dates? 1960’s security cameras at his old gallery…. very low tech

The Whole Monti?After email him last year, i emailed him “its a map” a month later? he said “its a map”

Samuel Smith?AGK could the phrase ‘in the wood’ be indicative of the location being within? a National Forest, i.e. pu8blic land?

David Dow?AGK: when you auction off? at Sotheby’s, will they keep you anonymous?

HoneyB100?If you find the TC in a Federal Park that requires you to report it to the Park Director will? you?

Franklin Eavers?I just found out about the Fenn treasure a month ago. Anyway, I’ve read TTOTC and the poem hundreds of times and am waiting for warm weather. Thank you? guys.

Journeyman?Thanks Guys?

The Whole Monti?Thank you, I love a gypsy’s kiss?

Michael koen?It’s on BLM? land

Mary Green?Michael koen?It’s? on BLM land,.. i think that too

David Dow?Another great? show.

fossilman123?Hey Koen i didn’t understand your? answer for the elevation of 8700 ft.

Michael koen?and because of BLM land? it’s not buried

Mary Green?a trick to blm? land though

Paul Ammons?Thanks for your time!?

Michael koen?very simple, that? is the altitude it is

Michael koen?at the? base of the sizzor tail

A Gypsy’s Kiss
Say something… (slow mode is on)

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